Virtually Anything Goes - a Made To See Podcast

Women in Tech Leadership: How Cultural Identity Shaped My Career Path | Sumi Shukla

• madetosee.com • Season 5 • Episode 7

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What if the most powerful leadership lessons start long before your first title? We sit down with Sumi Shukla, VP of Global Marketing at Riverbed, to explore how immigrant roots, blended cultures, and early responsibility shape a career built on resilience, fairness, and authenticity. Sumi’s story moves from a childhood balancing identity in a predominantly white town to leading global teams across field marketing, ABM, partners, and digital. Along the way, she learned to trade control for trust, to define outcomes clearly, and to give people the space to deliver in their own way.

We get into the big tension leaders face: courage versus perfection. Sumi argues that fearless presence beats “flawless” execution when it carries substance—evidence, iteration, and accountability. She shares concrete examples from marketing, including how her team launched ambitious account‑based marketing programmes, read the data honestly, then made the tough call to scale back and reinvest where results were strongest. You’ll hear how to normalise experimentation without recklessness, drop sunk costs without leaving gaps, and build a culture where learning is a habit, not a post‑mortem.

Mentors and representation play a central role here. Sumi highlights the impact of formidable female leaders early in her career and the insights from her Global Voices of Leadership: Women Who Inspire series—stories of resilience, unconventional paths, and sponsors who opened doors. Together we map a practical leadership playbook: be clear on the outcome, be consistent and fair, lead from the front or the back as needed, and stay humble because you might be wrong. We close with a simple, moving question about legacy - what remains when titles fade - and why the answer should guide how we show up at work and at home.

If this conversation resonates, follow the show, share it with a colleague who’s growing a team, and leave a quick review to help others find these leadership stories. Your feedback shapes what we explore next.

Don't miss the "Virtually Anything Goes" question at the end, where Lev faces Sumi's unscripted question for the first time!

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Sumi Shukla is the VP of Global Marketing, at Riverbed Technology, where she leads all field marketing teams, ABM, Partner and Alliances, and Digital marketing. Sumi has 25 years of experience working in Tech Marketing, having spent over 10 years working at Cisco and having now been with Riverbed Technology since 2016. If that wasn't enough, Sumi is also a strong advocate for Women in Tech and has established the “Women at Riverbed EMEA” initiative.

Connect with Sumi Shukla on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sumi-shukla/

Lev Cribb is the Founder and Managing Director of Made To See, a UK-based Video and Livestreaming Agency, specialising in the strategic and tactical use of video across B2B organisations. Lev is also the host of the Virtually Anything Goes podcast.

Connect with Lev Cribb on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/levcribb/

For more information, content, and podcast episodes go to https://www.madetosee.com or our YouTube channel  @madetoseemedia ​

Sumi Shukla:

Failure is a really interesting one because, you know, no one really likes talking about no one wants to fail. And you certainly don't, you know, set out to fail at all, but there comes a point in time where you realize that's actually part of your journey.

Lev Cribb:

Hello, audio listener. This is your host, Dev Cribb. Thank you for choosing this episode featuring our guest to each do club. If you prefer video, you can find all of our episodes on YouTube or on our website at Matee.com. But now I'll get out of your way and hand you over to Well, hello and welcome to the Virtually Anything Goes podcast. This episode is part of our leadership story series where we speak to leaders from a variety of different backgrounds, including AI, healthcare, software, strategy, executive coaching, and others. And if you like what you hear in this episode, be sure to subscribe and check out our other episodes too. Today I'm talking to Sumi Chukla about her leadership story, how she got to where she is today, and whether any situations or experiences threatened or indeed enabled her progression. Sue is the VP of Global Marketing and Riverbed Technology, where she leads all field marketing teams, ABM, partner and alliances, and digital marketing. Sumi has 25 years of experience working in tech marketing, having spent over 10 years working at Cisco and having now been with Riverbed Technology since 2016. If that wasn't enough, Sumi is also a strong advocate for women in tech and has established the Women at Riverbed INEA initiative. Sumi Shukla, very warm welcome to you. I'm delighted to have you on the show.

Sumi Shukla:

Thank you so much. Great to be here today.

Lev Cribb:

If this is your first time listening to the Virtually Anything Goes podcast, stick around until the very end. When I turn control over to Sumi, and she can ask me her virtually anything goes question. This can be any question at all, and I won't know what it is until Sumi asks me, so it could literally be anything. The only caveat is that Sumi will have to answer the same question after I've given my answer. So, Sumi, um, when we first spoke, you told me about your parents. Uh they came to the UK from India before you were born. Your father was an engineer and your mother was a teacher, and they worked hard to establish a new life for themselves here in the UK. Tell us a bit more about your parents and what values did they instill in you from an early age?

Sumi Shukla:

Of course. Um, and again, great to be here. So thanks for inviting me to join you today. Yes, indeed. Um, my parents immigrated to the UK in kind of like the mid to late 70s. So proud to say that I'm very much a product um of immigrants into the UK and was lucky enough to have both a blend of Eastern and Western kind of culture as I was growing up. They did work hard, as you said. Um, they did struggle, uh, often working multiple jobs. And I think, you know, for your listeners that will uh identify with those times, there was a bit of a backdrop of racism as well in the country, sadly. They did always operate with a lot of grace, sort of dignity, humility, and and hard work as well against some very sort of difficult times and difficult circumstances, always keeping their culture very central to who they were, um, and never sort of wavering from. Just an example of that. My mother, as you mentioned, was a teacher in in the UK, taught English to English people as an immigrant from India, but always insisted on wearing a sari to work. Um, so that was just testament to her kind of resolve of who she was and being very true to her own identity and wasn't sort of um intimidated at all uh by the task at hand. My story is not a unique one. Um, I think many second-generation um Asians like me saw similar traits, similar values, um, and similar kind of cultural um traits in the environments that they grew up in. And I think all of us are bound by those common values that we saw of immigrants from that generation. So, in terms of what those values were and what my parents really taught me, I'd have to say just having a very strong work ethic, not being entitled to anything, knowing that actually you have to earn your way, um, but also being very fair, being very, very tolerant of society and those around you, and really being authentic and being really true to yourself and who you are. And I think those have really sort of stayed with me. And it's it's interesting because as you kind of get older, you realize that those are your values. I think as you're growing up, you don't really recognize what your values may be. Um, but now that you know I'm kind of um uh aware of those, I do hope that I do bring those uh to the forefront in my day-to-day life as well.

Lev Cribb:

Interesting. Thanks for sharing that. And uh you know, that there you are hardworking parents raising a family in a very different culture to where they were raised themselves. What can you tell us about the the young Sumi? What were you like as a child?

Sumi Shukla:

Young Sumi. Um, yeah, I think, you know, as a child growing up um in the UK, and actually we we lived in quite a predominantly um white middle class area. You know, there's obviously areas of the UK that are quite highly populated with um Asian families and and immigrants. We we weren't in an area like that. So I did kind of struggle a little bit um, you know, with my identity uh in a way. There was a real difference amongst you know myself and my school friends, and the environment that I was kind of growing up in was different to theirs. And you kind of just as a child adapt to it, and sometimes you don't even recognize it, but it's just how it is. Um but yeah, I did sort of struggle with you know cultural nuances. You know, my my household that I was growing up in was different, different food, different um clothes, different uh festivals and and things like that that we would we would celebrate. Um I also had two younger brothers, um, and as well as sort of bickering with each other, the three of us were sort of united watching cricket on TV, playing video games, you know, having a very normal sort of upbringing as well, getting on our bikes and going out to play with our friends, which you could kind of do in those days. I don't know if kids do that as much these days, but it was a very innocent time, I think. Um, and also I was very lucky to feel like I never really wanted for anything. Um, I think my parents did a fantastic job of making us all feel very safe, very secure in that environment, um, despite some of the cultural um differences. And personality-wise, I think I've always kind of been quite headstrong, um, quite outgoing as well. I always, you know, like to have a lot of friends and be out and about, um, but always outspoken as well. So I think um I've never really sort of shied away from sharing my views and opinions um on things um even as a child. So yeah, that's kind of my my upbringing, really.

Lev Cribb:

Oh, very good. And is that some of that carry through to today?

Sumi Shukla:

Are you still outspoken and uh still, I think, to sometimes um know when to speak out and perhaps when to bite my tongue at times. Um, and I think that comes with age and experience as well. But it's one of those things that you know, I I'm a mother myself, and I encourage my children to always speak off. And I think that is a trait that we should never really dumb down in people. Um so yeah, I still have that quality, if you want to call it a quality in my personality, uh, for sure.

Lev Cribb:

Excellent. Well, that's that's that's a good trait to have. And looking back, I suppose, at the early years or what generally looking back, when when was your first lesson in in leadership? Obviously, this is the leadership story series, but when was the first lesson in leadership that you experienced, whether you knew it at the time or not?

Sumi Shukla:

Yeah, so um it is interesting when you kind of look back to your early years, um, especially, you know, being the eldest of three siblings, um, I often took it upon myself within our household to sort of be the organizer of things, whether it was making sure, you know, the table's laid for dinner or that we all pulled together and do things. I was quite vocal in terms of who would hoover the house and who would dust the house. So it was always kind of that um organizer, a rallier, if you like. Um, and it was often me that stood off and said, hey, we're gonna do it this way or we're gonna do this. Um but I think as I look back in terms of lessons in leadership, I have to look to my father. Um, so my father was always very passionate, and my mother too, about maintaining our heritage and our cultural identity as children growing up in the UK. He established in the 90s a kind of community association in the town that we lived in for Indian people. He got together with five of his friends, all who had that similar kind of value system. And their aim was to really make sure my generation and future generations never forget sort of where we came from and our culture and our heritage. No one told him to do it. Um, he wasn't getting paid for it. It was just something that was inside of him, and he had the conviction and the courage and the determination to actually go ahead and establish this. He quite quickly assigned, you know, friends and friends of friends, and they built a committee. Each of them had a different task. One was a treasurer, one was kind of organizing events, the other, you know, was trying to drive membership, things like that. They were nonprofits, so they never made any money from it. But it became a real pillar of our community. And it's still very much going strong today, even though my dad's retired from work himself. But if I look back and I think, gosh, you know, these days it's very hard. I mean, I couldn't ever imagine doing something like that in my spare time just with uh the challenges of work and family life and just sort of life around you. Whereas he not only found the time to do it, he was truly passionate about it and found a real purpose and meaning um to what he wanted to do. So for me, when I look back, I think that was probably my first lesson in true leadership, um, and one I often admire, um, in all honesty, looking back um at those times.

Lev Cribb:

Interesting. And yeah, doing something like that that um is alongside a lot of other responsibilities as well. Um takes effort and and as you say, the passion to want to do it. We fast forward to sort of the year 2000 and you enter the world of work at that point. Um apart from your parents, who do you recall as you know, being the first person to inspire sort of leadership ambition in you and and how did that happen? What did they inspire you with?

Sumi Shukla:

Yeah, so gosh, it feels like such a long time ago now, doesn't it? Um, but yeah, I mean, when I look back to those days, um I started my career in the technology, the IT channel. Um, so I lived in an area that kind of became known as the UK's Silicon Valley with a lot of technology companies, a lot of channel partners um around us. And I started off in what was kind of a sales um type role at the time, and then moved to kind of manage some of the relationships with some of the manufacturers that we uh that we supported. My boss and her boss were formidable female leaders in our in our company. They led with strength, but they also knew how to have fun and how to kind of have a good time and bring the best other people and create that team sort of sense and environment. So I think that was when I first really thought, gosh, that's great. I'd really, I'd really like to be like them. Um but I never really thought I want to be a leader. I never really thought, oh, I really want to lead a team. I I think in those days, as I was sort of starting my career, I didn't really know what leadership was. It was just someone who was there and you kind of like had a boss and that was it. But when I look back, they they would always kind of come to me. Um, I was sort of their go-to person, and I kind of took charge of tasks, of projects, of the sales number that we were trying to drive. So I guess I was kind of already leading in a way without having necessarily a title to do that. But when I look back at those guys, they had a really strong blend of compassion, you know, some human values, as well as the strength to drive a sales team and sales numbers. So when I look back at that, I think, gosh, that was actually quite inspirational for me to kind of um start my career in that environment and female leaders as well, which you know was is rare today to find that in sales. Um, but in those days, it was also quite rare to have um to have that as well. And it was really nice to have those kind of role models to emulate as well. Um, so yeah, I think they were sort of the first people to really spark that ambition in me, um, even if I didn't necessarily recognize it at the time.

Lev Cribb:

Yeah. It's good to hear that um you were inspired by them. And then and yeah, that I think that I mentioned it at the at the beginning. You you're a strong advocate for women in tech as well. And uh we'll we'll come uh back to that in a moment as well. But uh fast forward a few years and going through your sort of timeline here, 2006 you joined Cisco um and you spent 10 years there. Um and uh um then in 2016 you uh uh you joined Riverbed Technology where you still are today as BP of global marketing. Um 10 years in tech is a is a long time, and you're almost coming up for another 10 years, obviously now since we're joining Riverbed. Yeah. What what what gives you the energy to keep driving forward every day, every month, every year? And you know, where do you get the energy from and what made it motivates you? Is it is it routine? Is it something that you do? Where does it come from?

Sumi Shukla:

Um so I think truly it's two things. Um, firstly, I mentioned I'm a mother, I'm a mum of two girls. Um, so one is doing her A levels, and one has just started secondary school again um this year. So it's important for me that they see that their mother is educated, she's ambitious, she has a career, she has ambition, she has goals, and she herself feels fulfilled. So I feel a real obligation to them um as their mother to show them what that could look like. And I really want them to feel that they're not only confident but capable of achieving whatever they've put their minds to. That truly does give me my sense of purpose. We kind of touched on that earlier, but also the energy to get up and do what I do every day. And then I think the second thing I really sort of draw upon is my teams and the the people that I have the sort of privilege to lead on a daily basis. I mean, and we all kind of wake up in the morning and sometimes lack that energy and think, oh gosh, can I do this? Or feel truly stressed by something that's going on at work or you know, juggling certain things. But I often feel in those times where I'm exhausted or tired or just strained from things, my teams are watching me. They're looking to me to be that person who lifts them up, who can be there to actually inspire them, set the tone, set the pace, you know, show that passion, keep driving them forward to their goals. And I think sometimes that's what kind of gives me the energy to kind of keep going as well. Um, so I would really say those two things. Um, there is no secret source, I don't think, in terms of what keeps you going. I've been very lucky to enjoy a long career at a great technology company like Cisco, where I really did, I think, learn my art um and sort of uh truly learn what good could look like. And then again, similar time at Riverbed, I joined right at the end of 2016. And I've been here ever since it's been a fantastic run for me. And I've been truly, truly blessed to have some fantastic mentors and managers who have really guided me through my career. But if I was to boil it down in terms of what keeps me going, because there are times, believe me, when you just think, oh, you know, I'm done. Um, it is those two things. It's my children, I think, and um the people that I lead.

Lev Cribb:

I mean, just just listening to you that it strikes me that that comes from a very strong sense of responsibility to your children to be a role model and and to your teams too, to lead them and inspire them as well. Do you think that's a fair assessment? It comes from your son's son's personality.

Sumi Shukla:

Yeah, I never really thought of it like that. Um, but yeah, and I I am one of those people that likes to, you know, take ownership and take accountability of things. And I do feel a sense of responsibility um for both those groups um in different ways. So that's probably a very fair and accurate um assessment of it. Yeah.

Lev Cribb:

I suppose we can tie that back to the values that you shared at the beginning as well. It's you know what was instilled in you through through growing up um through your parents, that that just is innate in you. It certainly seems to come out um the way you describe it.

Sumi Shukla:

Yeah, maybe. I think um certainly for that generation of of immigrants coming in, I mentioned the word sort of entitlement. They had they didn't have any of that. They worked their way truly to where they are today and you know felt a sense of ownership and a sense of responsibility to themselves, their parents that they had often left back in their own countries, and then the families that they were were bringing up and hard work and having that strong ethic, I think, carried a lot of them through really tough times. And perhaps you're right, perhaps it it is innate in me. And when I look back and I just think, gosh, I don't know if I could have struggled the way that they have, and do feel truly lucky um that I'm really standing on their shoulders um in terms of them uh paving the way for for my generation and and future generations as well as uh immigrants.

Lev Cribb:

There are quite a few echoes in what you're saying there. Um earlier in the series, we I spoke to Jacintha Ivey, MBE, who um whose parents came to the UK from um through the as part of the Windrush generation. Uh she was born here. Um and one of the things she said is we uh what was instilled her in her is one resilience, two was hard work, but also the the need to work harder than everybody else just to stand still. And that struck me as something that um that's where where her motivation came from as well. That you know you you you um you need to work hard, you need to build up that resilience because you are experiencing things that you alluded to to as well. Um and the setting that you grew up in and and and that that pushed her forward. Um so it it seems to echo that as well in a very similar situation.

Sumi Shukla:

They're very, very similar indeed. Yeah, I can definitely identify with that. And I think, you know, certainly for my parents' generation, coming over when they did, you know, language was also, I mean, my parents were fluent in English. My mum was an English teacher. Um, but still, there was an accent, they looked different. Um, you know, I I looked different, but I think I'll have the benefit of being educated here and growing up in an environment here where I can talk about the football match or I can talk about, you know, the new restaurant that's opened up, or whatever it might be. Um, they didn't have that. And I think it was harder for that generation, and perhaps it it is is for us. But like I said, they really did pave the way for us to be able to flourish um in this country and make the most of the opportunities that I have.

Lev Cribb:

Yeah. When when you when you first held a leadership position, um what would you say? Just cast take take us back to that perhaps a moment in time, what was the biggest unexpected challenge that you come across as a as a leader when you were first in leadership and um how did you deal with that particular situation? Do you recall a particular one?

Sumi Shukla:

Yeah, I do. Um, and actually, you know, it's interesting when you look back at your leadership journey because I do cringe sometimes. Um I make mistakes. Um, and I I often feel, gosh, I need to apologize to some of the people that I led earlier on in my career because um I probably was a little bit overbearing at times. In terms of some of those challenges, I think what I've learned is I need to let go at times. And you know, wanting to kind of own everything and thinking, I I know how this should be done. Um I soon realize that actually people will find their own path um to the outcome. People have different, everyone's different. Everyone has a different way of getting to where they need to get to, as long as they get there and they get there within the time scales, then it should be fine. Um, but yeah, I I look back and I think, oh gosh, you know, I should have handled that differently. But you learn from these things, don't you, as you move forward. Um, but I truly believe, honestly, one of my fundamentals is that everyone comes to work to do a good job. Everyone, no one turns up thinking, I intentionally want to do this badly, or you know, I'm trying to screw up here. It's up to us to as leaders to make sure that they continue to be inspired to deliver outcomes, but also to give space um to the people in your teams and allow them the opportunity to deliver. So I think that was probably one of the biggest lessons I learn um in my leadership journey.

Lev Cribb:

Interesting. Do you do you think um there was an element in the sort of early days of leadership that um you had a sort of preconceived idea of what leadership is, and then later you developed your own style?

Sumi Shukla:

And um, I think you know, you often look up to who your leader is at the time and think, oh, that's how it should be done. Um and you know, when I started my leadership journey at Cisco, you know, I had some great leaders above me, but I also had some not great leaders around me. Um and I was trying to emulate and trying to be someone that I probably wasn't. And I think as time moves forward, you know, coming back to being authentic, I think that has been one of those things that I've sort of anchored to. And when I look at my leadership style now, to how it used to be, yeah, I'm a completely different person. I mean, there's still some traits there, but I'm much more conscious about my leadership style and intentional with how I do things. Whereas I think in the early days, I was probably trying to be a bit inauthentic at times, really, um, and trying to be what I thought good could look like. Um, and arguably I've probably been more successful being more authentic and being true to myself than than before.

Lev Cribb:

I mean, let's let's dive into that. Um, you know, your current leadership style, you alluded to it to it there. What what do you think, what aspect of your your leadership style as it is now, which obviously is, you know, you you've built up over many years. What aspect of your current leadership style do you think is most influenced by your upbringing or your family background?

Sumi Shukla:

Yeah, I mean, we've spoken about my family background and some of the values that you know I I hold very dear as a as a result of that. I think being inclusive and and really being tolerant has been very key to who I am as a person, but also, you know, reflected in my leadership style. And I do believe in being fair and being consistent in my approach to things. Um and I often, you know, you know, I can annoy some of my team members if I think, you know, something perhaps isn't as consistent as I would like it to be, but I think that is a key value that I hold very dear that if it's going to work for one, it needs to work for all kind of thing. Um, I do think, you know, everyone brings unique strengths to the table. Everyone comes from a different place, has different um perspectives on things. And I think that being in an environment which was, you know, during through through my kind of upbringing, which is culturally different, you know, having brothers around me as well, um, having our household was always, you know, an open door policy with relatives coming and going from whichever part of the world they were traveling to or through the UK, um, to and from. I think it's really opened my eyes to diverse perspectives and diverse thinking. Um, but I think those are some of the common things around fairness, consistency, sort of tolerance as well, inclusivity. Those are some of the things that I think really have shaped my leadership style as well that I take my upbringing.

Lev Cribb:

Yeah. Well, I've I've I've spoken to a variety of different leaders in this series from different backgrounds and different walks of life. And you know, one thing that comes up a fair amount is is the question of success and failure and doing things perfectly and and whether leadership is about that or not. And I read a comment on um LinkedIn the other day from a leader, um, and I'll have to read it here off my screen, but they said showing up fearlessly often outweighs flawless execution. Especially in leadership. How might we build cultures that reward courage over perfection? What's your take on that? Um, do you agree with that sentiment or do you do you disagree with that?

Sumi Shukla:

Yeah, um, I would largely agree with it. I think um we can often get paralyzed in the pursuit of flawless execution, right? If there even is such a thing as flawless uh execution. We can be bound by kind of constraints that we may impose upon ourselves or that our our bosses have imposed upon us. That can really inhibit creativity, um, bind us to kind of process and sort of like making sure that we execute in a certain way can also stagnate ideas as well, all in the name of perfection, which I think, you know, sometimes we need to really reflect on and think, is that really the right thing to do? But showing up fearlessly, though, you know, we all want to be bold and courageous and show up, you know, with with that trait. But one thing I've seen in my career as well is that has to be with substance to it, too. Um, I think we've all seen those kind of characters in a meeting or, you know, in our workplace that appear to be fearless and bold. Um, but actually, when you listen to what they're saying, they might actually lack a bit of substance or lack a bit of depth there. So I think, you know, showing up fearlessly isn't enough. You also need to have the depth and the substance there to kind of back that. I think as a as a leader, it is important um to show up courageously and have those kind of outspoken moments and be fearless. And it can take the guise of different forms, right? It might not be necessarily standing up in a meeting and showing fearlessness. It might be making a decision to stop doing something and start doing something else. But being courageous enough to kind of take that step is what's required from a leadership um standpoint. I think so. I would largely agree that actually, you know, showing up fearlessly probably does outweigh flawless um execution. And I think, you know, that kind of fearlessness in terms of the cultural side of it, it will foster naturally, if your leader is showing up like that, a culture of optimism and sort of positivity and the ability to try new ideas. If your leader is saying, you know, let's make a different decision or let's be courageous and talk about this rather than I need you to execute flawlessly. So I think a culture of experimentation may naturally um form as a as a result of that. So I do largely agree, but I don't think it's as black and white as one or the other. Um so yeah, but a very profound statement, um, indeed, and a very kind of thought-provoking quote for sure.

Lev Cribb:

It is, it is, and I I have have thought about this long hard as well. And you know, we we've had different guests on with different opinions. Uh for example, Charles McLaughlin, who is the founder of the CEO Growth Academy, um, he talks about the fact that we can't control everything. So being fairness is is okay, but I think the way not putting words in his mouth, but I think the way he would probably look at it would be have a sense of vulnerability in areas that you can't control and and an acceptance of that situation and then dealing with that. And uh if we I guess look forward to that on the yeah, the the point of um fearlessness. As you I think alluded to as well, you you you can't afford to be then for that to turn to arrogance and to be blinkered by you know, I'm I'm fearless, I'll go for it, but then actually you're charging in a direction that's probably not helpful. Um just talking about we talked about perfection or a flawless execution there, and I suppose as leaders we're often held to uh a higher standard uh to a degree and if we think about perfection, perfection is impossible, and invariably there are times when we do fail. How do you personally approach the topic of failure? Um and and how do you communicate with your you mentioned your teams as well, how do you communicate with your teams on that topic?

Sumi Shukla:

Failure is a really interesting one because you know, no one really likes talking about, no one wants to fail. You slightly don't, you know, set out to fail at all. But there comes a point in time where you realize that's actually part of your journey. Um and you actually can acknowledge failure as a positive, as well, almost like a gift, right? At least you know something is not working or something is is is not going the way you want it to, and you actually have the ability to do something about it. The challenge comes when you actually don't do anything about it or you don't know that you're that you're failing. So I often tell my teams consistently, you need to be reflecting on what's working, what's not working, but be honest with yourselves. If this was in the world of marketing, which is uh what I lead here, you know, we often have a budget, a marketing budget that we invest in different programs and different activities. And we need to be honest. Is it truly working for this and not be beholden to, you know, some sense of pride that I don't want to be seen to be failing? It's actually more detrimental to be holding on to something that necessarily isn't working. We need to be prepared to drop things quick. I mean, giving ourselves enough time to assess and to test. And, you know, what I always try and tell my teams is before we do make a bold decision, coming back to being failed and being bold, if you are going to drop something, we do need to look at the impact of that. Whilst it not may not be working in one aspect, what are the holes that it does leave? You know, how are those being plugged by other activities or other tasks? Or, you know, what is the impact of it? It doesn't mean you necessarily hold on to something, but it does mean that you do need to plan um for what may be a gap that is left by by dropping something. So failure is part of our journey. I think it's something that does need to be spoken about openly amongst team coming back to that culture where it's not hidden. Um is part of you know what you're reviewing and part of the discussion. But I do think you know, you do need to have that kind of balanced approach to looking at what's working and what's what's not working, to keep doing what you're always doing, just because you've always done it. I mean, I think they say it's the first sign of madness or something, but it's always, you know, often as well, a waste of everyone's time and money from a marketing standpoint. So just being honest with yourselves, I think is is something I try and instill in my team.

Lev Cribb:

You you you touched earlier on experimentation. Uh and I mean, would would it be fair to say that failure is built in by design, that you know, you are experimenting, you are trying things out, but perhaps on the backdrop of if you fail, fail fast. But within within a pre-designed process, is that right?

Sumi Shukla:

Yeah, I mean, look, we don't we don't necessarily design to fail as such, but we I do try and foster a culture of experimentation. I'll give you an example. Um, there is uh obviously in the marketing world, a lot of those uh listening to this will will know the term account-based marketing. So we set up um a few years ago here at Riverbed um an account-based marketing team. Um, we had very big ambitions of what we were going to achieve through our campaigns and and through the efforts of our account-based marketers. Quickly, we realized we'd bitten off more than we could chew. We decided to go and run, you know, a whole heap of uh account-based marketing campaigns in different industries. So we started in the January, when it came to the halfway mark in June, and we were reflecting on it. We made the decision to pull back from a lot of those industries. And again, it was not that we designed for that. We did know that perhaps some would fly and some perhaps wouldn't, but we always had the intention of trying to make all of them successful. But of course, it didn't work out like that. So, again, part of that decision-making process was okay, well, look, we're learning as we go here. We realize this is a newly formed team. We've been off more than we can chew. We need to invest where we're actually seeing yield and results and maybe pull back or dial down on some of those other areas. So I think it is about flexibility when it comes to things like that. But don't be afraid to experiment. We tried it, it worked for some, it didn't work for others. Um, but yeah, it again, it just comes back to that constant sort of review of your results, how things are going, and making sure that failure isn't seen as a negative as such, it's seen as part of your learning and growth.

Lev Cribb:

Yeah. I think it makes perfect sense. And um, just to I suppose change tack and direction slightly, you you you actually host a video series called Global Voices of Leadership, Women Who Inspire. Um, not too dissimilar, I suppose, to the conversations we're having here as well, um, where you talk to female leaders from from different companies. Um what are some of the insights that you've learned from those guests of yours that you've taken away that really stood out?

Sumi Shukla:

Yeah, no, this was a great project to be involved in. And I think, you know, we mentioned it earlier. I'm very passionate about women in technology. Um having grown up in this industry, I think it is something that, you know, we we do need to continue to talk about. When I worked at Cisco, we had a great program there, um, really championing women in tech. And when I came to Riverbed, you know, I really wanted to establish something, something similar. We've done many, many things to promote um the conversation within Riverbed. And this particular series, we called it uh Global Voices of Leadership. It was actually to commemorate International Women's Day last year. So yeah, we we spoke to, we had you know such a great um set of guests that joined us for these videos, female uh technology leaders from around the world from all kinds of different industries and different um uh parts of the world as well, which was great. Talking to them, there were a few things that did stand out for me in terms of common themes, if you like. The first was really around their resilience and determination. So, you know, it was really clear to see that some had come from different backgrounds, had some personal trauma, were juggling lots of different things. But they all took these challenges on as part of their journeys, all in their strides, and they still managed to move forward. Any hurdle that was thrown in front of them would just navigate and continue with that sort of resilient and determined sort of trait that they had, which was fabulous to see. I think the other thing I noticed was women, but certainly the ones I spoke to, were in leadership positions unintentionally. It wasn't like they set out to say, hey, I really want to be a women in tech leader. They were, I think, all supported through their journeys by strong mentors along the way that really believed in them and pushed them forward. And I think that's perhaps not the same for men in some cases, where they sometimes have a view on what they want to be and are kind of out to go and get it. Not to say that there aren't women like that, but certainly the ones I spoke to seem to almost stumble across their next opportunities as opposed to really going out and seeking something, um, which was really interesting. And then I the third thing I think I really picked up on was the diverse nature of their backgrounds. Um and how embracing their backgrounds really shaped who they were. I mean, we've talked about that here as well, which is really interesting. But, you know, um it's all available publicly, so I'm not not sharing anything. But, you know, there was one uh sharing anything that's not out there, but there was one lady in particular who I will always remember. She she didn't go to university, decided that she didn't really know what she wanted to do, and started, you know, sort of uh she worked, lived in a slightly deprived area, um, but you know, decided that she really wanted to pursue a career. But her journey was really interesting from working with horses to working with, you know, being a a temp worker. Um she never let where she came from hold her back. Um and that was really interesting. For me, there was another lady who um came from again a very sort of deprived area in the United States, but she herself wanted to go to university, so she worked multiple jobs, raised the money because it is a very expensive um thing to go to university and put yourself through it. She did that herself, all with a view that she wanted to go into finance. And she had that view. She didn't know what she wanted to do necessarily, but she knew that that's where she wanted to be. She put herself through her undergrad and through her masters. She made a list of which company she wanted to work with. And then she really went for it in terms of getting her entry-level job in the companies on her list. She didn't let her background hold her back. She was super determined and it actually shaped who she was and how she moved forward. So many stories like that, super inspiring, and yeah, a real privilege for me to have the opportunity to talk to these uh wonderful ladies as well and understand their stories.

Lev Cribb:

That's fantastic. And um is that still available? I mean, I'm sure somebody listening to this before we before we think they want to see it.

Sumi Shukla:

Yeah, it's on riverbed.com on our on our website. So yeah, I think there's four or five videos that we may see more. Um but yeah, we're we're we're already talking about doing it again for International Women's Day um next year. So I I hope we can do that. But yeah, really inspiring. And I've encouraged my daughters to watch it as well because you know, not only for for those of us that are in the world of work, I think it is really important for the younger generations to understand, you know, what women are going through. And you know, it's not about victimhood or anything like that. I think it's just genuinely inspiring to hear people's stories and how they uh moved through their careers and their journeys.

Lev Cribb:

Yeah, so which is why we have you on here and why we're doing this series. We'll we'll we'll put a link in in the in the description. So if you if you do want to have a look at that, we'll um we'll put a link in there as well.

Sumi Shukla:

Oh, great.

Lev Cribb:

Um let's I want to sort of I suppose bring this together a little bit. Um and just ask you the question, what is what is leadership to you? How do you define it if you had to sort of ring fence it into a sort of a sort of smaller, shorter definition and bring everything together that we talked about?

Sumi Shukla:

Yeah, what is leadership? I think it's um, you know, open to interpretation, of course. Um, but for me, I think it really is the ability to inspire and guide people to an outcome. Um, and that, you know, can will have multiple layers to it. It comes with lots of different aspects to it. First of all, they need to believe in that outcome. So, you know, know where they're going and why they're going, they need to know how they contribute towards that. But also as a leader, you know, it's important that you are prepared to lead from the front or lead from the back, you know, and adapt yourself as well in terms of where you fit in that journey or for that particular project. So it's a pretty deep question. Uh, what is leadership? And I think it has many aspects to it when you start to unpick it, but really it is that ability to inspire and guide people for me to a particular outcome.

Lev Cribb:

Yeah. And I mean, you clearly you've you've accomplished a lot in your leadership role and roles, and then obviously where you are today and that experience of 25 years. What advice would you have for somebody who is perhaps already in leadership or perhaps not yet, but aspires to be any advice for them?

Sumi Shukla:

I feel, you know, it's one of those things where I feel, am I the right person to be giving advice? I don't know. I don't think I've got it nailed. I think I'm still learning as I go. But um I would say my advice would be be open, be flexible, be humble because you might be wrong. And I think that sort of sums up my own journey as well. Um but yeah, I would I would say that would be the advice I would give.

Lev Cribb:

Wonderful. And yeah, we can only give advice based on what we've experienced ourselves, I suppose. And that's the most most genuine way to give advice. Um the I mean, really, really interesting conversation. We're not done yet, but just wanted to say thank you for for kind of sharing an insight into your story and and how you got to where you are today. Uh, I think every every journey is different, and and clearly what's clear to me that you were obviously you know influenced and shaped very early on by um your parents um and the experiences you had at a younger age, but also took charge of your own destiny and career based on those values and uh got to where you are today. So I just want to say thank you for joining us on this episode. But as I say, we're not done yet. We've still got the virtually anything goes question, uh, which is um my most famous uh uh favourite but also dreaded moment where I don't know what's next. I will hand over to you to ask me the virtually anything goes question. I don't know what it is, uh, but I do have to answer it. But of course, after I've given my answer, I will then turn it back to you and you after that have to answer the same question. That's my safety net anyway. But um, Simi, over to you.

Sumi Shukla:

Okay, yeah, no, I love this. Um okay, so my question would be when all the titles and achievements of your work fade, what do you hope people will remember?

Lev Cribb:

Okay. Um without putting too random name on it, I suppose it's a legacy question, isn't it? What um what do you want people to remember when all said and done? Um I suppose a couple of different things. What one is that what I did was fair. Um that it made a difference. And it doesn't really matter whether it makes a difference on a global scale or an individual small local scale, but that it it it had an effect. You know, it wasn't just all for nothing. Um whether that is you know making somebody's life easier, um, whether it's adding value to somebody's experience, um, whether it's um you know providing employment in the local area and somebody was able to pay their mortgage or their rent. But also I think what for me is always really present is that I still had time for my family, for my own interests as well. Um that it wasn't just you know, dad went to work and we never saw him. Um actually there was still enough time to come home, put the bag down, get on your knees and play with the kids and go to football and go to dancing and you know, what whatever the kids are doing, and that they remember that as well. And um much like what you recalled from I suppose your parents and the memories you have, that there are memories, full stop, you know, that yeah it wasn't just a a sort of a a a busy fool's life that's then you know ten years later nobody would remembers. So I I hope I hope so a combination of those things um would be what is remembered.

Sumi Shukla:

Yeah. No, absolutely.

Lev Cribb:

What about what about you? Do you want to read out the question again? So yeah, we we have that fresh.

Sumi Shukla:

Of course. The question was when all the titles and achievements of work fade, what will you hope people will remember? So very similar in terms of my view on things. I I hope that people be that my family, my children, the the people that I've worked with and had the privilege and honor to lead. I hope that they reflect that you know I operated with a sense of compassion, kindness, strength. Um that, you know, similar to you, delivered value back in in whichever sort of facet that is, be that family or or work. But also that I contributed in any way to their own journeys. Um and hopefully they could look back and and and think, yeah, I learned from from that period of time or whatever it might be. So yeah, very similar, very similar to you that you know you want to be seen to be contributing back in um to people and helping people um along the way.

Lev Cribb:

Yeah, it's it's it's interesting, isn't it? That I mean this is the leadership story series, and leadership is, I think, judging by both our answers, more than just leading a team, leading a person, leading a company. It's it's it's applying leadership lessons to our own lives as well, knowing that, you know, certain things will fade over time. And you know, whether that's from the moment that we retire or from an earlier moment or a later moment, but at some point there will be other things that we have to bear in mind as well that are important. And and if we can remember those early on, that there are people who we live with, we depend on, we love, we you know, we influence, we are influenced by it is more than just the nine to five or perhaps a five to nine, depending on how much you work. Um it's it's about more than just leading at work, isn't it? It's it's it's about being there and present in other parts of your life as well.

Sumi Shukla:

Yeah. Absolutely.

Lev Cribb:

Wonderful. Well, um, Tui, it's it's been a really great conversation. I've really enjoyed it. And and thank you so much for for your insights and for joining me on this uh this episode. Uh really appreciate it. Um and I I hope you had a good time. I hope you had a good time too. Uh and of course, if you were listening to this and watching this and you're still with us here, brilliant. We really appreciate you being here. Um in the series, there are other conversations from um other leaders uh with different stories, different walks of life, but all of them really insightful, interesting, and inspiring. So do take a look at the other episodes as well. I want to thank you for being with us today um in the audience, and of course to me, and thank you to you as well. Really enjoyed having you here. And hopefully um we get to see everybody again in another episode. Until then, thank you very much, and take care. Hope you had a good time. I hope you had a good time too. Uh and of course, if you were listening to this and watching this and you're still with us here, brilliant. We really appreciate you being here. Um, in the series, there are other conversations from um other leaders uh with different stories, different walks of life, but all of them really insightful, interesting, and inspiring. So do take a look at the other episodes as well. I want to thank you for being with us today and the audience, and of course, to me again, thank you to you as well. Really enjoyed having you here. And hopefully um we get to see everybody again in another episode. Until then, thank you very much and take care.

Voiceover:

Thank you for joining us on this podcast. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. For other interesting topics, go to your favourite podcast platform or watch the video version on YouTube. Just search for the Virtually Anything Goes podcast. See you next time.

Head Shot

Lev Cribb

Host